In today’s episode, we talk with Beserat Debebe, founder of @etancomics, about his unique take on visual storytelling & how his method & his work reflect his Ethiopian heritage. We also talk about his mission to connect people with their heritage through comics.
Matt Stauffer:
Hey. Welcome to Things Worth Learning. I'm your host, Matt Stauffer, and this is a show where a curious computer programmer, that's me, interviews fascinating people about their passions. My guest today is Beserat Debebe, founder of Etan Comics, a writer, a storyteller, and creator of the first Ethiopian comic books. So Beserat, could you tell the audience a little bit about yourself, and whether it's your personal or professional life, and just kind of what's bringing you here? I know we'll talk later about what you're actually here for specifically, but can we just kind of get a quick intro to you?
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah, yeah. No. Hey, thanks, Matt.
Matt Stauffer:
Of course.
Beserat Debebe:
Thank you for having me. Very excited to be here. Yeah, a little bit about me, so I kind of came to the states when I was around 14, 15 years old. I'm originally from Ethiopia, and I grew up in Ethiopia, in Addis Ababa, the capital, and kind of moved here and went through college, graduated as an engineer. And a few years ago, I started a comic book publishing business that was focused on publishing African stories by African creators. I formed kind of a Pan-African team and artists from Nigeria and Ethiopia. And we started working on some really cool stories. And I love writing stories. I love comics in general, manga, graphic novels. And so one thing I missed was having Ethiopian stories, mythologies, and African mythologies in it. So I decided to focus on that, and we published some cool stories, Jember, Hawi, and Zufan, and I know we'll get into those. And it's kind of blown up more than I expected, and very thankful and happy to be here too.
Matt Stauffer:
I love that. Well, thank you so much for the intro. And just for a tiny bit of backstory for everybody who doesn't know, which is everybody but the two of us, I found your comics through a friend of mine, Scott, and he's like, "I know you're a comic book nerd. You've got to check these out on Kickstarter," and now I have consumed all of them. And it's interesting because every time you send them out, and I think you said Amharic, so every time you send them out, I'm actually getting it in multiple languages. So I'm getting the one that's in English, and then I'm getting the one that's in Amharic, which you said is the Ethiopian national language. And it's really fascinating for me because I feel like it is a... Obviously, I'm getting too early in this, but it's like this validation of the culture that you're working at. It's not just like Anglicization of the culture, like, "Hey, Americans, here you go." You're clearly actually serving the people there.
Matt Stauffer:
So we'll get there in a second. But I just wanted everyone to hear the context, because if you have not kind of seen these comics before, it might not be as clear, because the first thing that I thought when I heard Ethiopian comic book, I was like oh, so it's going to be like Black Panther, right? We're going to be bringing this kind of African spirituality, African culture, some African language, and stuff like that in mythology into a very like Americanized, westernized space to give access to these things, which are beautiful and wonderful to Western people. But it's clear to me that that's not just what's going on here. So I won't put words in your mouth. We'll talk about that in just a second, but I want everybody else to hear that this is not... I think that from an outsider, the Black Panther perspective is a good start, but it's not enough to understand quite what's going on here. So I know I'll let you get to that in just one second, but one question I have to ask you beforehand is do you have any sort of life mantra or phrase or idea that you always try to live your life by?
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah, that's a great question. So for me, something that's always been anchoring, a phrase, a mantra that's been anchoring is the everything happens for a good reason mantra, which it comes from my background and my faith and all that stuff, but I've noticed that it's been my consistent mantra from a young age, and it's always kept me failing forward. I've never had a time where I've said oh yeah, I'm doomed, like this instance or whatever event happened to me is like I can't get back up from this. I always believed that if I've done my best and something has happened and it didn't go the way I planned, then there is a bigger plan. There is something I'm supposed to learn from it and grow from it. Everything happens for a good reason.
Matt Stauffer:
That's amazing. I appreciate you sharing that. And I do want you to hear, you are welcome to share as much about your faith or your background here as you want, because sometimes I'll go on podcasts and I'm like, "Hey, I don't know if I'm supposed to quote scripture here or not," but what I want you to hear, if even in this particular question, if you want to go deeper than that and tell us where that comes from or a particular reference or anything like that, cool. If not, we can just keep on moving, but I just want you to know I want the whole person here. You don't have to sensor or anything like that.
Beserat Debebe:
I gotcha. I gotcha. Yeah, no, I mean, my faith, I'm Orthodox Christian. The Ethiopian community has multiple faiths, predominant faiths, but Orthodox is one of them. And I've always grown close to that. And it's something that we always kind of, as a family, we always go back to this sort of mantra, with my mom, with my brothers, my father. It's something we've sort of lived by, and that's where it goes... And I just remember distinctly from very young age thinking about that kind of... Whenever I get into some situation, I usually even verbally say it out loud to remind myself just everything happens for a good reason.
Matt Stauffer:
I love that.
Beserat Debebe:
It's okay. It's okay to feel this pain, and you can move on. You will move on.
Matt Stauffer:
Love that. Not to get super religious on you or anybody else, but one of the things that has been really valuable for me as I kind of think through that particular mantra is sometimes we can say, well, why did whoever, God, creator, universe, whatever, make this bad thing happen? Wouldn't that be a bad God who makes the bad thing happen? And of course, people have all sorts of theological ideas about that, but it's almost the inverse of it that has also been really valuable for me, is the universe, or God, or whomever, can bring good of everything, because I think that, again, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but there are ways in which we can gain from even the worst things that have happened in our lives, and we can grow from them, and we can experience abundance out of what came from something that looked bad when it was happening. And so again, I'm not saying that you're saying that, but I love looking at it from both sides.
Beserat Debebe:
That's very, very well said. I agree with that.
Matt Stauffer:
Yeah. Cool.
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah. And I have met many people who have countered me with what you just said, which is if everything happens for a good reason, then why is X, Y, Z happening? And why don't you answer that question?
Matt Stauffer:
It's complicated.
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah, exactly. I don't try to subject people to my beliefs and the way I see life, but I know for me, this has been true in many, many ways. And I've told you we moved here. There's just several instances of challenges that I've faced in my life, which could have went south many ways. And I've always found the lesson from them, and I've always looked back and said oh wow.
Matt Stauffer:
I love that.
Beserat Debebe:
I get it. I get it now.
Matt Stauffer:
I see what's going on there. I love that. Well, thanks for sharing that, man. I really appreciate it. So you know this podcast is actually about one topic that you are really passionate about. So can you tell me what are we actually going to talk about today?
Beserat Debebe:
Yes. So I'm super, super passionate about connecting people like myself with my heritage and visual storytelling, which is comic books and graphic novels, manga. I'm especially, especially passionate about Ethiopian and African storytelling, because we have such a rich history that has not been shared with the world or that most people don't know about. Obviously, I know about it because I grew up back home, but a lot of people, when they think of Africa, have outdated perceptions, to say the least.
Matt Stauffer:
Yeah, that's a kind way of saying it.
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah. And even when you think about African history, a lot of people focus on Egyptian history, not a lot on other countries, for the most part. And with this new wave of Black Panther and stories like that coming along, it's opened up an opportunity for people like myself and other storytellers to really share this rich side of our culture, our heritage. And in addition to that, there's the representational aspect. And I feel like this representation matter is becoming a very cliche quote now. So I like to frame it in a different way, because what really happens when we say representation matters is we're validating our existence. We're validating our experiences and saying I belong in this space. I belong in arts. I belong in doctors, engineers. I belong in music. I belong in hockey. I belong in water sports. All these places where, whether intentionally or unintentionally, society has conditioned us to feel like we don't belong, we're validating and affirming ourselves that we belong there.
Matt Stauffer:
That's incredible.
Beserat Debebe:
That's what it means for me to say representation matters. And so when I write these stories and share, not only the history and the mythology that we grew up with and that we know about, I'm also sharing the visual arts style, the way we communicate, the way we talk, our letters. It's not boom, pow, clank. It's other things. There's other different sounds that we use, and that validates my experience. And when other people see it, they're like, "Oh my God." That's how I grew up. What the heck of a poom, bow, bow? I grew up with this other sound. And it's like, yeah, of course, I mean, this is another human experience, and it is totally normal. It's totally okay. It validates my fears. This is what I'm afraid of. These are the things that I don't tell other people about, because if I tell them, they'll outcast me, or whatever. And so I'm very, very passionate about this journey of visual storytelling, entertainment, plus validation, education, and just growing in this arena.
Matt Stauffer:
Goodness, you just gave me like two hours worth of conversation just out of that one introductory statement. It's so good, man. So there's a million places we could go, but I think the first question I want to ask you is... And I mentioned at the beginning two things, one, that you deliver your comics in multiple languages, and two, I mentioned this before, that you... And one of the things that you sent out there was coloring books, and my kids got super excited. And it sounds like one of those things where you know how people say their kids say something that they obviously didn't say, but it's just to match their political ideology? But my kid actually said this, like saying... I can't remember the exact words, but basically like, "I can't believe I'm coloring a superhero that looks like me," or something. It was so trite, like, nobody's going to believe me that he actually just said this. You know what I mean?
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah.
Matt Stauffer:
But I think it's a really amazing opportunity that we can all imagine kind of like oh, this person might get value here, but I'm curious for you. Do you have a primary audience? And obviously, you're releasing this in multiple languages. You're putting it out in the US, but you also are clearly targeting Ethiopian and other folks from other areas of Africa. But if you were to say, "If one group of people is reached, this is the most important, and everything else is secretary," is there such a group? And some of the groups I could imagine are Ethiopian expats or folks who currently live in Ethiopia, or Americans who should learn more about Ethiopia. Is there a particular place where you're like this is the target and everybody else is kind of great, but secondary? Or is it really just kind of putting it out there?
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah. No, whenever I write stories or whenever we publish these books, it is young, black and brown kids. Those are who I have in my mind all the time. And I approach it from that perspective. Obviously, you can segment saying, oh, black and brown kids of course include Ethiopian kids, includes Nigeria and everybody in that segment, but I focus on them and then their parents. That's who I focus on when I try to work and tell these stories. Obviously, I would like that to grow into a stage where we focus on just everybody in the black and brown community and everybody else outside as well. I want the stories to not only be a specific genre or something or age group. I want them to grow, because I think that comics provide such a opportunity to reach multiple audiences. But at this very moment, my laser focus is on connecting black and brown kids with their rich African heritage, whether it's, as I said, history wise, or things they don't know about African civilization and African sci-fi speculation, and all that stuff, or whether it's visual art wise, like we have really dope, dope styles. Nobody knows about this. And they should.
Beserat Debebe:
It's just like when people "discovered" manga. Manga was there for a long time, but now it gradually grew. People started accepting it. Look at all of our favorite shows, like Avatar, the The Last Airbender, and all these great shows. They take anime, they used anime style. The Japanese style is so forefront, mainstream right now. It wasn't like this back when it started. And that's where we are, I feel, in our journey with African art style and African storytelling. I want it to get to a level where we share the very unique aspects of this heritage enough that people from all different backgrounds enjoy it in the mainstream.
Matt Stauffer:
That's amazing. So I love that. And that makes a ton of sense, because I was imagining that both, I think when we tell stories and we want to target everybody, you end up kind of getting mush. So sometimes the best way to get to everybody is to make a really narrow focus on this is for this person, and I'm going to imagine this particular person when I'm telling the story, but then I will tell a rich and robust story that ends up being appealing to other people, but it still has integrity to what it was about instead of trying to just be a little bit for everything. So I believe that because I took that away from reading your comics. And so I'm not surprised to hear that. But that also kind of puts together the idea that where you are right now is a part of a plan. And right now, you mentioned three comics, but you also mentioned that you want to have lots of other stuff that are different styles and made by different people. So could you tell me a little bit the story of when first got started actually in Kickstarters? And what was the first comic? And what was the first idea? Just kind of what got you to where you are today? And then from there, I'd love to talk about kind of where you're going from there.
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So when I started, I started with Jember story. Jember is a superhero, kind of adventure story. And I was actually at work in my office looking at the news, and I saw news of these Ethiopian Powerpuff Girls. It was this very small animation. It was news about these Powerpuff Girls trying to teach girls' rights to young girls.
Matt Stauffer:
Yeah. Cool.
Beserat Debebe:
And I saw that news, and I was like wow, this is really cool. I want to take this a step further. That was like the light bulb moment for me, when I was like I want to take this a step further though, because what I want is I want a story that's like Spiderman or Batman that is centered out of Ethiopia, like Addis Ababa. What would it be if somebody like in Addis Ababa got super powers, where I grew up? And I knew immediately right there that the story would be so different. The culture's different. There's religion. People are so or nervous around supernatural things. It's taboo. There's just so many dynamics. Ethiopia is a very... What is it?... community-centered culture. Your neighbor almost raises your kids like-
Matt Stauffer:
I love that.
Beserat Debebe:
His kids or her kids. You know what I mean? And so it's not like in the US or the western cultures where it's individualistic and if you keep growing, you get to where you want and all that stuff. It's more about you focus a lot on the community. And it is good and bad. It's good in that people are always there for you. So is a superhero needed?
Matt Stauffer:
Right. That's a fascinating question.
Beserat Debebe:
That's one question? And then the second part, though, is also if you have an idea, or you want to do something very different that is outside of the community norms, then it's very challenging. You have to be so careful, because you'll be outcast. So that's another thing that happens when you're a superhero and you have powers and you come in and you're like I'm about to save everybody. It's like who are you? You're this foreign entity. And so I just thought about those dynamics, and I was like oh man, I want to know what happens. This is, I think, a great story. And it really put me into this question of self-worth and all that stuff. So Jember's story is really about self-worth, because as I said, in the a community-oriented culture, your self-worth is often... You get tricked into thinking that your self-worth is determined by the status you achieve-
Matt Stauffer:
Oh, man.
Beserat Debebe:
The people you help, the things you accomplish. And what happens when you get a superpower and you're able to do all this? How does it mess with your values and all that? That question really started digging at me. And so that's where Jember came. So Jember follows this young kid. His name is Amanuel Tilahun, and he's just graduated from college, and he has no job, but he's desperately looking for a job, as another way of looking for self-worth in a community-oriented culture. And he's just like feeling hopeless, and he's almost looking for ways to get out of the city to find opportunities. And he's in this state when he finds the thing that changed his life. And so he has this question of like okay, I mean, I can really change my life right now if I want. I can do whatever. I can also be responsible if I need to, or not. He has to weigh those decisions. And you just gradually see him grow, embracing this other side, and then the reaction of his community and how that dynamic changed. Now, this dynamic you will not find in New York. You won't find it-
Matt Stauffer:
-find it in Brooklyn, yeah.
Beserat Debebe:
In Spiderman-
Matt Stauffer:
Yeah, exactly.
Beserat Debebe:
Or other, because it's a totally different culture. So that's why I really got drawn to that story. And so Jember, we started with Jember. Jember has now like four issues out. The first part of the story's over into a graphic novel. And then we're going to continue with volume two later. And then Hawi was our next story. Hawi is a fantasy story. And so Hawi now follows an Ethiopian-American, young character and her journey of kind of self-discovery. And Hawi's story is about trusting your gut. That's what Hawi's story is. It's you get this character who grew up with her mom. In an Ethiopian family household, and I would assume in other immigrant households as well, you're very much close with your parents and always working to please them, whether you recognize it or not.
Beserat Debebe:
And because of that, it leaves this self-doubt or lack of self-confidence in you. At times, you become indecisive, because you're so used to listening to your you guider. You're you're so used to taking their advice and making sure they're happy with your decisions, with your path. And developing the strength to kind of challenge these perspectives in a way that is still healthy in your relationship and allows you to grow is a very difficult journey and, I think, interest thing journey. And I wanted to express that journey in a fantasy story, essentially.
Beserat Debebe:
So you have this character, Emnet. She lives with her mom, as I said, again, a young student. And she's trying to do her thing, "Hey mom, let me go here. Let me go there." Mom is like, "No, you got to be careful. You can't do that." Blah, blah, blah. And then because of some event... I'm just trying to be careful not to spoil the story.
Matt Stauffer:
Yeah, yeah. For sure. Appreciate that.
Beserat Debebe:
But yeah, they go back to Ethiopia to visit family, and then her mom gets kidnapped into this fantasy world. Some strange masked figure comes, and he just takes her. And Emnet jumps after him, and the portal closes. And so now you have her in this whole new world without her mom, and she has to figure everything out, learn to trust herself, trust her gut. And you get to see all the different ways, emotionally and physically, she gets challenged to become the person she's meant to be and become more herself. That's Hawi. Hawi and Jember's story will intersect at some point, so it's kind of like one universe building there.
Beserat Debebe:
And then the later story we published is called Zufan. Zufan is a sci-fi story. Now, Zufan is separate out of the Jember and Hawi universe. Actually, it's a story that recounts the true story of Italy's invasion of Ethiopia in sci-fi, Pan-African, futuristic sci-fi version. And I'm very excited about that story. It's one of the most important moments in Black history. When Italy tried to colonize Ethiopia in the 1800s, it was during the scramble for Africa, or what historians call the scramble for Africa, 13 European nations and United States also, they met in Berlin to discuss about how to divide and share resources that come from Africa. And there was no African leaders present. This is a very intense history. And then after that came the conquest of Africa. And only one nation remained independent throughout all of that and retained sovereignty, and that was Ethiopia. And this is not taught in-
Matt Stauffer:
Definitely.
Beserat Debebe:
American history schools. It's not taught in Europe. It's taught in our schools, and other Africans also know about it. But I wanted to share this story in a new way that not only can people who are not Ethiopians enjoy, but even Ethiopians enjoy. And that's why I kind of twisted the story to this sci-fi story. And you get to see these aliens talk about earth-
Matt Stauffer:
Yeah, I love that.
Beserat Debebe:
And wanting to divide earth up for their own resources. They're looking up for their own interests. These distant planets, planetary leaders, they convene, and they come to earth, and they say, "Hey, this part of earth is mine." And then only one nation kind of remains with their sovereignty. And you get to basically see that story and learn real history through that. So those are our stories so far.
Matt Stauffer:
So a million questions, but I got to start right there with one thing. Have you by chance seen Battlestar Galactica, the remake?
Beserat Debebe:
Not the remake. Yeah, I know Battlestar Galactica very well, but I haven't seen the remake.
Matt Stauffer:
Okay. So for anyone who doesn't know, Battlestar Galactica was like a corny show in 1980s, and then they made remake in the early 2000s, or something like that. It was like four seasons. It started out as like a two-hour mini series, and then it turned out to like a big four-season show. And I've told people a lot that I loved this... And this will make sense in a second... because they're able to tell stories... And I think this is true about all good sci-fi. They can tell stories that we can disconnect from a little bit, where we can have questions about things that our ability to engage with normally might be limited because we are tied in some way. Like it's our culture or our family or our nation or whatever, and so we are not willing to fully be empathetic to the other side.
Matt Stauffer:
And so in sci-fi, they're often able to tell these stories. And Star Trek does this a lot as well, where they're talking about something that matters today, but they're giving us a level of distance from it, where we're able to like see it with more open eyes. And so there was one particular thread in Battlestar Galactica where the main characters who we identify with and we see them as the hero and the underdogs, they turns out are doing something that's really uncaring and inappropriate. And if we were to see it today, it would be easy to say oh, that's terrible, or whatever. But by putting us connected with the oppressor in that moment, it allows us to go oh my God, did that really just happen that I now feel this way?
Matt Stauffer:
And so I love the idea of using a level of distance to allow us to look at a situation in a way that, like if you were to say, "Hey Americans, here's a comic book about your people being absolutely God awful to another people," it might be a little bit hard for us to interact with. And like you said, if it was for Ethiopians, it might be like, "Yeah, we've heard this story a hundred times." And so you were able to find a way to turn it into this distant thing where everyone is able to look at it with fresh eyes. I really, really, really love that and love that you're doing that. So, sorry. Go ahead.
Beserat Debebe:
No, no, no. That's so well said. That's really well said. And I'm not the first to do this, obviously.
Matt Stauffer:
Sure.
Beserat Debebe:
So one of the other things along the same lines is do you know the comic or the graphic novel Maus-
Matt Stauffer:
Yes. Oh my goodness.
Beserat Debebe:
By Art Spiegelman.
Matt Stauffer:
Yeah.
Beserat Debebe:
Okay. So-
Matt Stauffer:
But for those who don't, can you give a little bit of context?
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah, yeah. So for those who don't, Maus is a survival story. It's a story about the author's father going through the Holocaust period and his survival story told through a graphic novel, but in that graphic novel, they use cats and mice to tell the story. And the cats are the Germans of the time and the mice as the Jews of the time. And what that story does so brilliantly is help people empathize and heal two communities by showing you the story through this distant land. Sometimes history is too traumatizing to revisit directly. It can bring a lot of shame. It can bring a lot of strong emotions. And so when you see it through these conversions in this graphic novel with cats and mice and visual stories, you're able to digest it more, and you're able to empathize more and go in the direction of healing.
Beserat Debebe:
And so I very much agree with what you said. And that's another aspect of it that I considered when I wrote Zufan, which is I wanted people to see that the history of colonization wasn't this like there's evil people and there's good people. It was actually a chain and a confluence of self-interests and how this blind pursuit of self-interest can get into such a dangerous path. And that just beautifully captures humanity in general and allows you to empathize very well. When you see alien races literally looking out for their own citizens, making decisions about earth from that perspective, but willing to commit crazy, crazy things on the beings on earth just to look out for their own interests, that's like you're just looking from the land of your own safety, all that stuff, and that takes you down such a dark path. And we need to be able to acknowledge this if we are to learn from history, to grow from it, to heal from it, and to chart new paths.
Matt Stauffer:
Wow. That's amazing. It's so funny, because the moment someone says, "I'm not trying to talk about good and evil people," my hackles start rising, because I say, "Don't you start justifying people for their behaviors." There's a bit of that. But I think that allowing people to be slotted into good and evil... And I'm just retelling my response to the very intelligent thing and amazing thing you just said, so sorry that I'm retelling it, but my first response to that was that, but afterwards I go oh, you know what? Not allowing us to slot those people in... So in the US... I'm I know you're aware of this, but just for everyone, the conversation of are you racist or not is a really common conversation I have when I'm trying to talk about racial justice with people. And people just say, "Well, I'm not racist." And the problem is the slotting of people into white supremacists are not white supremacists, racist or not racist, means we can look at the white supremacists with their white hats and their burning crosses and say, "that's not me. Therefore, I'm okay where I am."
Matt Stauffer:
But if you look at it instead in terms of the lens that you just said, where not necessarily selfishness, but self-preservation and caring for yourself and your people and your people's needs at the expense of other people leads you to these horrible things, that's actually much more pressing on us to do better than if it's just evil people, because we can say, "Look, I know I'm not evil, so I'm good. At least I'm not Hitler." Or, "At least I don't wear a white robe." And so what you're giving us is a space where we each have to say it doesn't matter if you're not Hitler. Are you acting out of your own self-interest in a way that will be potentially harmful to other people? It doesn't matter if you're evil. You're still in that way. And you might not be racist, but are you uncritically benefiting from a racialized society? Well... So wow. You just kind of blew my mind a little bit with that. I really appreciate that.
Beserat Debebe:
I'm telling you that you have said that. I couldn't have said that anymore better like that. That is, I think, the nature of being a human and the level with which you focus on your self-interest by disregarding another people shows you who you are, how you act, what you cause. And-
Matt Stauffer:
I'm having an emotional moment here. I'm sorry. That's really cool. Okay, so now you got me even more excited about what we're talking about that I already was, which I didn't think was possible. So where are you going for from here? You have those three series that you have going on. You're in a little bit of a break with Jember, but I know that you've got plans for those, but what else is in the works? I both want to know short-term, but if today somebody just wrote you a check for $5 million and said, "Quit your day job and just go run Etan full-time," what's your dream?
Beserat Debebe:
That's a great question. So in the short term, obviously for me, my goal is to make sure that these stories, Jember, Hawi, and Zufan, they're told the right way, they're delivered and executed well, because one thing I don't want to do is Game of Thrones, the whole story lines. And it's also about building trust with our fan base in that we have to be able to show, not only quality work, but that we can consistently deliver. We can finish. We're just like any other publisher and held accountable and all that stuff. And we've done a great job so far. We have five Kickstarters, fulfilled all five on time and funded all five. We have a really good trust built with our fan base. And I really want to make sure that is maintained. So my immediate focus would be those three and making sure they're executed.
Beserat Debebe:
In the midterm to long-term, my primary goals are, one is expand the team so that I'm not the only one and my team currently are not the only ones telling the stories. I would love stories from Kenya. I would love stories from Uganda. I would love stories from Tanzania. There's so many amazing stories waiting to be told. I want to give that platform that opportunity, because other people are not going to give these artists, these creators, that opportunity. They're afraid to take those risks on them. And I want to be there. I want to empower them as much as possible. That would be my next goal.
Beserat Debebe:
The third goal I have is, like I told you earlier, I'm very much passionate about the visual storytelling heritage of Africa, Africans. I don't know if you know this already, but we call our books SENS'ILs. We don't refer to them as comic books or manga. And the word SENS'ILs comes from... It's a combo of two words, two Amharic words, Amharic, the national language of Ethiopia. The first word is sensil, which means chain, and then the second is s'il, which means art.
Matt Stauffer:
Cool.
Beserat Debebe:
So SENS'IL, it's chain art.
Matt Stauffer:
Perfect.
Beserat Debebe:
It's actually derived from... In the 17th century in Ethiopia, Ethiopian monasteries in Northern Ethiopia, they used to have this very graphic novel type book that told visual storytelling, that told stories, but it was very focused on religious content, and it was called sensul, S-E-N-S-U-L, sensul. And so we wanted to pay homage to that history we have and carve out a new-
Matt Stauffer:
That's so cool.
Beserat Debebe:
Dimension for us. So we have SENS'IL, the chain art, sequential art. So that's our... You see? Yeah, so I want to make sure that that grows and becomes like manga. I want our own art style, just like manga has. I want our own way of telling our stories. Do we get to tell it back page forward or forward page back? I want us to define that. And why is that? Because as I told you in the beginning, this is about validating our own existence, is validating our own experience, our own talents, affirming us saying of course we are capable of creating our own art, our own stories, and we don't have to seek validation from somebody else external. And we don't always have to fit other criteria to tell our stories. It's great to write in a comic book format. It's great to write in a manga format, but I want our format.
Matt Stauffer:
That's so cool.
Beserat Debebe:
I want us to define and to own that. And so these are the three things. And of course, like anybody else, going into animation, going into games and tv, that's always a dream. That's a goal I have in the long term. But in the short term, I'm focusing on Jember, Hawi, and Zufan. Midterm I'm focusing on expanding our team, making sure SENS'ILs are really well done, really well showcased and explored. And then in the long run, I want animation-
Matt Stauffer:
That's cool.
Beserat Debebe:
Movies, shows-
Matt Stauffer:
And also just the broader cultural understanding of this as a unique art form versus hey look, some Ethiopian people are working in this existing space, right?
Beserat Debebe:
Yes.
Matt Stauffer:
I love that.
Beserat Debebe:
Exactly, exactly.
Matt Stauffer:
Oh, that's so cool. So if someone were changed... I'll ask this last question, and then we'll move on to the actual final question. If someone who had never heard of you who had never experienced Ethiopian or any other Pan-African art were to be changed by listening to you in this podcast today... Of course, there's some simple ones, go buy the comics, go listen, see the art, spread the... Those are simple ones, but if they were to be changed in terms of their perception of the world and their perception of Africa and African art and contributions and the perception of Ethiopia or anything else like that, is there any way where you can... And if the answer's no, that's fine. Is there any way you could say, "I just wish everybody would at least understand this," or I wish ever everybody would at least do this," or whatever? Is there there something that slots into that kind of that sentence for you?
Beserat Debebe:
That's a great question. For me, it all comes down to just I wish that all of us had the ability and the wisdom to empathize and be open to other people's experiences. And I think that's where all of this comes from. We are living in a society where... It's not about how we got here, but how to change it that we're focusing on at this point, but we're living in a society that doesn't validate all the experiences, that doesn't allow certain groups of society to have a full human experience as compared to others. And I wish that we can all acknowledge this and acknowledge that that's not okay and that everybody deserves to have this full, rich experience while they exist where they feel safe, where they feel like they belong, where they can thrive. And that doesn't mean it's going to take away from other people. All of us can experience this at the same time. And if you can acknowledge that and operate from that space, then you're an open person. You can really understand how this world works, and then I think that even you yourself will have such a beautiful experience just by acknowledging and understanding that and acting from that space, because that requires a lot of self-awareness and self-reflection, I think.
Matt Stauffer:
If my structure allowed it, that would be the end of the podcast, because that was amazing. That was beautiful. I am very inspired by that. And I love you sharing that. And I think that there's... You know what? I'm about to like explain all the things you just said, and you did a great job. I'm not even going to say anything else. Thanks.
Beserat Debebe:
Please go for it.
Matt Stauffer:
No, no. Thank you for sharing. That was great. You don't need anything else from me. Yeah, I'm just going to let that sit. So let's move on to the next question, because I don't think there's anything I could add. So the last question that I asked before how can we support at you is what insight or support did you receive or need when you were younger that you hope more people will give to others? Obviously, it overlaps a little bit with what you just said, but kind of in the shape of that question, is there something that comes to mind?
Beserat Debebe:
Support I got when I was younger, right? You said-
Matt Stauffer:
Support you either got, or you didn't get, but needed. If you can imagine somebody providing young you with something, what would that be?
Beserat Debebe:
Wow, great question. I think that coming from my background, as I told you about, like with this collectivist culture, community-oriented culture and an immigrant culture, for me what I think I needed is that it's okay to not be perfect and to just fail forward. I remember I told you about my mantra about everything happens for a good reason. I'm so glad that it meshes with this perfection issue that I had, I still have... I'm not going to to pretend like I've overcome it, but I do wish that from a young age that I was affirmed to not value other people's opinions more than my own and to not strive for this elusive perfection, that it's really about avoiding failure. It's really about avoiding other people's opinions of you.
Beserat Debebe:
And that's what I would want for everybody. If you're young, especially in this day and age, this TikTok and social media age, where we're all so afraid of cancel culture and very much worried about saying the wrong thing, perfectionism is doubling down on us. It's doubling down. And I hope everybody operates from a self-compassion space and know that it is okay to make mistakes. It is okay to learn and to grow. And it is very okay to not be perfect. We need to disregard this idea of perfection. Just you're a human having a human experience, and that requires failure and growth. And you don't even have to call it failure. Just call it improvement opportunity or something. Just think differently. But yeah, that's what I would want for my younger self and for all young people. Just it's okay. Just value how you see yourself way, way more than how other people see you. I think that will get you long way in avoiding perfection.
Matt Stauffer:
That's good. That's so good. And I mean, Hawi, as you talked about, is so much about trusting in your gut, right?
Beserat Debebe:
Yeah.
Matt Stauffer:
This is making sense. There's a real quick connection there for no reason. I don't know. But I watched Meet the Robinsons, I think it is, which is like a probably 10, 15-year-old Disney movie with my kids this past week, and there's a kid who's a perfection, who's an inventor, and at some point he meets the people who are going to help him do better. I don't want to tell the whole story, if anybody watches it, but he screws something up, and he's about to beat himself up and whatever. And they all break out into to cheers. And he's like, "What do you mean? I just screwed the thing up." And they said, "Yeah, exactly. It's only through failure that you're going to grow and learn." And I was like that is such an amazingly deep way of thinking. And so when you keep talking about failing forward, that's what keeps coming to my mind. So I really appreciate. I feel like you're speaking to me right now. Thank you. I mean, I will release this for other people, but it's clearly just my therapy session right now.
Matt Stauffer:
Okay. All right. We're at 50 minutes. So I will cut this. So tell us how we can follow you and support you. I believe that there's going to be a lot of people coming out of this who will want to read everything you make, who want to give you a lot of money, and who want to hear everything you do. So how can we follow you? How can we support you? How can we consume the stuff you're creating? What does it look like for all of us?
Beserat Debebe:
Great. So you can find any of our content at our website, which is etancomics, E-T-A-N, comics.com. Again, -E-T-A-N, comics.com. You can subscribe to our newsletter. I send out emails. They're usually personal. And I like to not be so sales pitchy. I just share my experience with you and let you know about all the cool stuff we do. Any social media stuff is the same handle, @etancomics, @E-T-A-N comics on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. And the best way to support us is you can either spread the work. If you can financially assist us, join our Kickstarters, buy our books, and just have fun. And always just be open to, not just even our stories, but other Africans stories, other storytellers whose voices have not been heard as much as others.
Matt Stauffer:
Love that, man. I cannot tell you how grateful I am to you for creating everything you've created, but also for spending your time with me today. Really, it was very good for me, but I'm sure everyone else will love it too. So thank you, man.
Beserat Debebe:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. It was fun.
Matt Stauffer:
It was. And to the rest of you, until I see you next time, be good to each other.